Lazygeek, the questions I have raised are for you to ask yourself. Are you being true to yourself when you endlessly praise a Hollywood flick? or have you been influenced in any way?

The very title of your post “devastatingly Kubrickal” reveals that you knew a lot about that guy, probably read a lot about him and then saw this movie. Did that have an effect?

“The BGMs, the camera angles and ofcourse the characterisation were just so applaudable that I sat there thinking cinema couldn’t get better than this.”

really? I havent seen even Kubcrick fans include Shining in their top 3 or 4 films.they consider it as a second-tier creation of his. Anyways, Inorder to make assertive statements like the one you have made above you need to be an expert on camera angles/BGMs. If not you probably knew beforehand about Kubcrick, the kind of filme he makes, and then let that influence you a bit while watching the movie. It is entirely possible.

Like I mentioned earlier, try to find films which you found really good but were’nt critically acclaimed or a movie which you didnt like but is considered great. If you stumble upon a movie accidentally on your cable channel, was riveted to it till the end and then later read upon the movie/director and found they were both really famous or critically acclaimed, then its a different issue. Thats the most natural movie watching experience. Like I had with “Kaadhal”. I only knew that the movie was a commercial success, no expectations about the director/hero/music and the movie had me riveted till the end. And I dont believe many hollywood flicks, especially Kubrick’s can affect a viewer with strong desi roots emotionally. Leave alone desis, even in US when 2001:space odyssey was screened first in a preview theater half the audience stormed out
criticizng the movie, its pace etc.Of course, later the movie was proclaimed as one of a kind. So when a desi viewer claims that 2001 space odyssey had him rooted or that its a classic upon first viewing I have to be really skeptical.
Desis, (barring ABCDs or someone who has been here a long time or who has been in Desh but has been sufficiently “americanized” froma young age) rarely have the technical knowledge/cultural attachment/emotional requirements to genuinely be affected by a so-called great English flick as they are by Desi flicks. Its true the other way around too. If an American attempts to review “vedham pudhidhu” or “salangai Oli” imagine the fun!

“I enjoy Rajini and Kubrick together. It may be ironical but isn’t life filled with ironies.”

Its not irony. Its just that you like to wear different hats while watching Tamil and English flicks.Judge them by diff standards. Theres a small measure of hypocrisy involved.

Few points and quick reactions -

1) I didn’t Sethu and Taxi Driver.
2) I am not a critic yet. I am paying for a movie and I am commenting about it. I enjoy Rajini and Kubrick together. It may be ironical but isn’t life filled with ironies. I love cinema and there are times where having known to be a trash film, Ive still watched it. So my life isn’t restricted to this blog. This blog serves as a vent to my likings. Even without this blog, I will be watching the so called psuedo intellectual flicks and discussing with a like-minded friend. I am not trying to brand myself here. If only I was, I have to keep yapping about the emails I get. I don’t do it.

3) Above all these I never said the movie affected me emotionally. I said ” A stream of thoughts and emotions ran across as I watched the film and it is still disturbing me after two days”. Well I should have explained more on those “emotions” before you start thinking that I am affected sensitively by the character of Jack. I wasn’t. The thoughts and emotions were related to the mode of moviemaking that kubrick followed. It was ruthless. He went for the kill. The BGMs, the camera angles and ofcourse the characterisation were just so applaudable that I sat there thinking cinema couldn’t get better than this. Though I accept Shining is not the end of the world nor GodFather is, I have to say while watching a good film, all these are bound to happen.

If you are picking up on that line and miunderstood me, I have to say it was mis-ommunicated. If it wasn’t the case, how about re-thinking your grudge system?

Lazygeek, I didnt put any words in your mouth. Yes, I do have a notion about desis and its nased on what I have ibserved and experienced myself. Many others have agreed with me on my observation too and they have about how much they have been influenced themselbes by all the factors I mentioned. I am just skeptical, I am not dismissing you completely.

“this argument is going nowhere because you are stuck with a basic misconception and adamant to move on !!”

how can you say its a misconception? Unless you relate to issues/themes prevalent in US how can you genuinely go gag over a film no matter how well the “images” are? You can appreciate all the technical aspects/camera lens angles etc. as much as you want. But definitely from an emotional point of view you cant get any closer to the film. I have the Nayagan/Godfather example which you havent responded to. Its not just me who felt that way. Tell me honestly that “Taxi Driver” made as much an impact on you as say “Sethu” did. The theme behind the former was loneliness/urban decay which most from India wont be able to relate with. You might appreciate Scorsese’s camera angles or the way he shot NY but to go gag over it and exclaim it as a classic you need to have been emotionally drawn into the movie and felt its full impact.

At the very least you have to admit that you need to have watched several hundred flick to understand the people/culture/themes/styles prevalent in the US society before claiming to understand the movie’s greatness.

Have you had any instance where you had watched
a Hollywood flick didnt like it and then later found it to be hailed as a classic in media here?
I guess that never happens to you since you read/hear about most famous movies/directors before you see the movie. And then you are afraid to trash a Kubcrick movie even if you didnt like genuinely it all that much for fear of being rejected. On the same note, have you genuinely liked a Hollywood flick which you later found it to be trashed by critics and then found it a bit uncomfortable to accept in the open that you liked the film?

Will an American film critic(or a general viewer) be able to appreciate Mudhal Mariyaadhai or Salangai Oli, if he had just seena few Indian films? The emotional impact of those films would be lost on him due to the huge difference in culture. Exceptions are maybe some of those sci-fi flicks/animated films etc. where dialogues/emotions are’nt a big factor.

For most other movies, language is as important as images. What is Godfather without its dialogues?
What is Dr. Strangelove without its wit-laden dialogues? Most of Vivek’s comedy would be lost on a foreigner who watches Tamil films with sub-titles. He would laugh at a movie like GuNa.
He will run away from any songs.
Theres a huge cultural difference here.

My comments/thoughts are not just based on your review of 2001: Space Odyssey but in general. I have seen posters like you who go gag over a Kubrick film with a Ebert-like tone in their reviews and then next day write a review on Chandramukhi saying “thalaivar thalaivar dhaan..” :-)) There’s hypocrisy somewhere.

I admit to enjoy a lot of Hollywood/foreign flicks as well,but many times felt distant due to the themes involved and the cultural difference. Only certain movies were able to cross these barriers and make an impact that genuinely made me elated about the movie and make me claim it as a classic based on my own perception. I dont find that’s necessarily the case with many desi reviewers of English films.

My intention is not to offend you here. But take a hard look at yourself and find out if you truly feel the same way about a so-called great Hollywood flick as you feel about the critically acclaimed Tamil films? This is not about your knowledge of movies or anything else. I am just talking about a psychological factor attributable to desis.

Its like some of the guys whom I have seen back in India who claim that they listen only to “Pink Floyd” or “Jethro Tull” since they feel its great music. Most of these guys wouldnt be able to pick a discordant note in a scale if it hit them on the face.

Even for 2001: Space Odyssey there are multiple explanations given for the ending of the film and a lot of symbolism attributed to certain images in the film. Its not even sure what Kubrick intended to convey-only few conclusions can be made based on his interviews on the film. The movie is like a long drawn out science seminar. Its intelligent enough to provoke a discussion, but is it entertaining as a cinema should be or does it move the viewer enough? Do you honestly claim to enjoy those long minutes of deliberate silence and nothingness in the movie? Leave alone Kubrick. Do you enjoy Adoor gopalakrishnan more than say Mani Rathnam? Just a few questions that you can pose to yourself. Sometimes a little introspection is’nt so bad.

recently i watched “paths of glory” , the first of the anti-war trilogy by kubrick… brilliance written all over the film…i liked this more than “full metal jacket” and “Dr.Strangelove” , the other two films of the trilogy. kirk douglas acted wonderfully.

In case you wish to take him apart, Maanga will be pleased to act on you behalf ;)

Many a times, I’ve patiently listened and answered back just like now. But what gets on the nerve is that when someone has pre-concieved notions about something and if he isn’t willing to even argue on it. I agree that Vijay says has a point. I am fine with his views on Shining and other ‘over-rated’ Kubricks flicks according to him but when he ‘puts word in my mouthsssss’(PKS), I can’t chew them. When he genralises on desis and commenting on this particlular post, he point those accusations on me, indirectly. I just blogged what I saw and there wasn’t a compulsion on me to take a 80’s hollywood flick and review it.

When I am saying I like the movie which I saw the weekend and someone accusses me of blogging for intellectuals, I should react. Shouldn’t I ?

After all, this isn’t the first time myself and Vijay are engaging in a ‘WAR of the WORDS’. So much for film lovers like me and him !!

After reading what Vijay has to say, tho’ i disagree with him on a lot of levels, i can’t just dismiss him. HE HAS A POINT. WE ARE influenced by our environment and what others have to say. Some c’d be negative, like there are some folks who w’d definetely watch a comedy flick after the ‘big ebert’ has given a thumbs down. We definetely are influenced by the BRAND name. Be it a movie director, restaurent, style, clothing….anything. mmm maybe i will blog on this.

my friend a fellow blogger has spoken about kubrick in a very small discussion. he urged me to watch it but never influenced me about kubrick. i watched A clockwork orange, went to the net and read about this guy named kubrick. thats because the images in the movie affectred me.

thinking back, i shouldnt be arguing like this with you. i have a basic reason not to. i feel the language of the movie a lesser impact than the images of the movie. maybe when i watch an iranian flick, through the english subtitles i may not get the essence but still i can symphatize with the characters. i truly enjoyed every bit of cinema paradiso, an italian flick. the language wasn’t a barrier.

//I firmly believe that one has have to have been “americanized” enough or have been born and brought up here on a Hollywood fare in order to genuinely go gaga or claim to appreciate the nuances of filmmamking here. //

give me a break dude. take a sip of neer more(you have to americanized ro drink mountain dew). this argument is going nowhere because you are stuck with a basic misconception and adamant to move on !!

keep commenting and happy movie watching ;-)